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| From | Message | Posted by andy94
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
08:02:21
Play online chess |  Subject: A chess saying...
Message:
"White plays to win, black plays to draw."
I don't remember who said it, but it's an interesting thing to talk about.
What do you think?
| Posted by ionadowman
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
12:36:32
Play online chess | Is it indeed attributable to one person?...
Message:
I seems to have been the approach taken by many chess masters, but certainly not all. Judging by the recent World Championship match, Vishy Anand had no idea of taking such a line. Bobby Fischer would have thought such an approach pusillanimous.
I much prefer the attitude of one Efim Bogoljubov, who flourished in the '20s and '30s: "When I have White, I win because I have the White pieces; when I have Black, I win because I am Bogojubov."
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by ccmcacollister
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
14:02:17
Play online chess | I have always liked Bogo's~! Very masterful :))
Message:
Corollaries:
Alekhine: "When I am WT I win because I am Alekhine, with black I win because you Are Bogojubov".
Mine: "When I am White I win because You are not Bogojubov, with black I win because Bogojubov is deceased and only had an hour to get to the board. "
{ "Wait a minute, I won? What happened??" }
}8-)
About drawing with black, winning with WT. Obviously it Wins any single match. Besides that it is often used in RR or double RR play particularly amongst near equals and in long events. In Swiss play, especially short ones, it is not so commonly sought.
There it might be more like: Crush the lower rated because you are higher rated; Win with WT among your peers; and Let's see about winning with black among peers and betters since I hope to know my chosen defense better, but if not perhaps I will grace them (aka "bail out" :) with a draw . . .
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Kamsky and Onischuk Pull Ahead at U.S. Chess Championship — While their rivals only managed draws, Gata Kamsky and Alexander Onischuk won their games Tuesday in Round 5 of the U.S. Chess Championship. They now lead the championship with 4 points each. Hikaru Nakamura, the defending chess champion, Yuri Shulman, Jesse Kraai and Alexander Stripunsky all trail by half a point. Tuesday, Kamsky had White against Larry Christiansen, who played an off-beat system against the Ruy Lopez. Christiansen ended up with the bishop pair, but Kamsky had more space in the center and a half-open f file to attack Black’s king. That was too much and Kamsky pried open Christiansen’s king position rather easily. Christiansen resigned on ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
14:04:45
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I think that such an approach is more applicable at a higher level than most of us are at. Certainly, when you look at the world championship matches such as the one just played between Kramnik and Anand, the notion of who was White and who was Black was critical to match strategy (and it was a very big deal when Anand won as Black.) At my level - I'm around 1600 both on here and OTB, I'm going to play for a win any time I'm playing somebody unless they're much higher rated than I am, in which case I may head for drawish lines, knowing that heading for a technical endgame will likely play into the hands of someone with more endgame experience than myself.
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Four Are Tied for Lead of U.S. Chess Championship — After three rounds, the four top seeds — Hikaru Nakamura, Gata Kamsky, Alexander Onischuk and Varuzhan Akobian — are tied for the lead of U.S. Chess Championship. Each has yielded a draw, so no one has a perfect score. Nakamura and Kamsky won their first two games before they drew with each other in Round 3. Onischuk drew with Larry Christiansen, a three-time chess champion, in Round 2 before beating Sergey Kudrin in Round 3. Akobian, who had drawn with Ben Finegold in Round 1, joined the other leaders with consecutive wins over Jesse Kraai in Round 2 and Irina Krush in Round 3. Akobian’s victory over Krush was a marathon, running to 113, and he was fortunate to ...
Posted by cascadejames
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
20:39:57
Play online chess | Better with Black?
Message:
For reasons that are unclear to me, I have consistently had a better record on Gameknot with
black. So I am skeptical about the application of the rule to those of use who are not Class A
players or higher.
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Vishy Anand defeats Veselin Topalov to retain World Chess Championship title — It was scarcely a vintage or error-free world chess championship, yet Vishy Anand's 6.5-5.5 victory over Veselin Topalov proved a combative scrap with subtle match strategies. The 40-year-old title holder from Chennai beat the Bulgarian 3-2 with seven draws in their €2m (£1.7m) series in Sofia. Anand won the crown in a 2007 tournament, then comfortably retained it against Vlad Kramnik in 2008, and so joins a rare elite of multiple chess champions. This time the margin was narrow, the games tense and long as Topalov, five years the younger, spurned draws and kept up sustained pressure. The Bulgarian had his chances, but a poor sense of danger proved his fatal weakness. All his ...
Posted by lighttotheright
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
21:35:48
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I sometimes play for a draw, even when I'm white. I drew a 2300 + player recently doing just that. I was surprised to get an early lead, but I knew it wasn't enough to win. When I got a chance to trade Queens, I took it. I had to give back some material to force a draw, but it worked.
I sometimes lose a game because I push things too far - trying to force a win.
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With One Blunder, Challenger Lets Chess Champion Keep Title — Some consider chess an art form, others a math problem to be solved, but at its heart it is a competition. Anyone who watched the more than 2,000 children competing at the National Elementary School Chess Championships in Atlanta last weekend could see that. At the top levels, the competition is fierce, and the psychological pressure can be overwhelming. That is why even the best chess players make mistakes. The world chess championship match between Viswanathan Anand of India and Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, which ended last week in Sofia, Bulgaria, illustrated that pressure. Each made blunders, culminating in one that led to Topalov’s loss in Game 12. It was ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
diddyonline.com
11/16/2008
22:34:56
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Message:
An attitude I would generally find more profitable would be "keeping the draw in hand" rather than "outright playing for the draw". Trying to push for a miniscule advantage is easier than pushing outright for a draw, in which you aren't able to claim any positional advantages, which can be tricky since playing for a draw tends to be harder than it sounds.
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Favorites Begin Quickly at U.S. Chess Championship — Hikaru Nakamura, Gata Kamsky and Alexander Onischuk, the top three seeds, all won their first games Friday at the United States Chess Championship in St. Louis. Five other chess players also won as the tournament got off to a fast and exciting start. The chess championship is being held at the Chess Club and Scholastic Center of Saint Louis and has a prize fund of $173,000. It has an unusual format this year. The first seven rounds will be a regular Swiss system in which players with the same number of points are paired. After seven rounds, the top four scorers will be separated from the rest of the tournament and play a round-robin amongst themselves, with the winner becoming chess ...
Posted by blake78613
diddyonline.com
11/17/2008
04:55:41
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When I am Black, I am happy to repeat a line that lead to a draw, and will keep repeating it until someone finds a way to obtain an advantage. While with White if I draw with a line, I will start looking for a different line.
| Posted by ionadowman
diddyonline.com
11/17/2008
12:29:51
Play online chess | Back in '83 ...
Message:
... I got roped into a six-round Easter tournament, having played just one game (in a telegraph match) in the previous 12 months. Naturally I wasn't in form, having made no preparation. In the event Black won all six of my games!
On reflection, I suppose that wasn't such a good occasion to depart from my usual English Opening to try opening lines I hadn't played before. That wasn't very clever... :(
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by farhadexists
diddyonline.com
11/18/2008
08:07:12
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Message:
At my level (1500-1600), I don't think it matters, as almost every single game is decided by a blunder of some sort, mine or my opponent's.
Then again, I've won 60% of my games as White here on GK, and 53% as Black, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Farhad
| Posted by wulebgr
diddyonline.com
11/19/2008
06:16:37
Play online chess | another
Message:
Black is Okay
The title of a series of books, and allegedly a famous statement by some player--I don't know who.
| Posted by ketchuplover
diddyonline.com
11/19/2008
06:24:03
Play online chess |
Message:
Chess is a theoretical draw-Bobby Fischer
| Posted by andy94
diddyonline.com
11/19/2008
07:28:51
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Message:
Thanks ketchuplover, lack that quote of Bobby!
| Posted by fmgaijin
diddyonline.com
11/19/2008
10:50:48
Play online chess | Andras Adorjan, wulebgr
Message:
EOM
| Posted by markb56
diddyonline.com
12/04/2008
11:14:19
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Message:
I have a terrible time playing as White both on GK and OTB. My win record as Black is about 20% higher both on GK and OTB. I prefer playing with a plan (e.g positional) rather than attack. It also depends on the opponent -- young players seem to have a harder time grinding it out than older players, as they need constant stimulus to stay interested.
| Posted by ionadowman
diddyonline.com
12/04/2008
11:50:06
Play online chess | I guess it depends...
Message:
... on what you find "stimulating" enough to keep your interest. Consider that you are down a pawn in a rook ending; possibly - even probably - a draw, but your opponent has whatever the winning chances going. What keeps you interested enough to play the thing down to its last gasp - lose or draw? It could, of course, be your place in a tournament - the possibility of a "grade prize" (if such things are offered), or, since your opponent has 200 ELO rating points more, there's the "moral victory" of acquiring a significant boost to your own rating and an addition to your chess CV.
Then, there's the intellectual exercise of making the best of the situation, finding whatever tactics there might be in the position, of setting your opponent problems. The same goes if you're on the upside of such an endgame.
Maybe it's worth thinking of it in these terms: When down, you are extracting a draw from a game probably lost; when ahead, you are extracting a win from a game probably drawn! Grinding out the win is not always - I find it's not even usually - lacking in interest.
Cheers,
Ion
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